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Monday, April 14, 2008

Wise statements by "Gary Michuta"

10:44 PM | Posted by Jnorm | | Edit Post
Gary Michuta is a lay Roman Catholic Apologist. Some might know him from his debates with James White. But I'm quoting a wise statement made in his book. Something overlooked by alot of conservative Roman Catholics and conservative Protestants when debating about the Deuto-conanical books.



quote:

"Appeals to supposed errors in the Deuterocanon have long peppered
Protestant/Catholic debates and rendered it far uglier than it needed to be.
Because Catholicism was its target, few had the forethought that this method
could be used against the rest of the Bible. As the Reformed scholar Edward
Ruess noted, "The scoffs thrown at the little fish of Tobit will sooner or later
destroy Jonah's wale." Ruess prophetic words have been fulfilled by the
extravagances of higher criticism. After the Apocrypha controversy had subsided,
critics turned the same weapons against, not only the Prophet Jonah, but also
the rest of the books of scripture. So-called errors and absurdities were
quickly expunged from the Protocanon of the Old and New Testaments. Whole books
were labeled (or libeled) as myths and fables. The end result is a bible where
only a few passages are worthy of belief. Anti-Catholic polemicists have
unwittingly opened a Pandora's box. They assumed no one would ever dare charge
the rest of scripture with errors and absurdities, yet the advent of liberal
Protestantism brought with it individuals who did not fear to apply these
arguments consistently throughout the entire Bible. The problem at the heart of
this line of argumentation is one of pride. It places the intellect in the role
of judge, allowing it to sit in judgement upon the word of God. Yet we must know
in advance what the word of God is before offering it this kind of allegiance.
That is why the canon of Scripture must be received as Sacred Tradition.

It takes humility to accept the canon of scripture as given to the
Church. But once we have made such an act all the glories of the Bible open up
to us. We may humbly submit our intellect to the text, sitting at the master's
feet like little children, knowing that even if the power to solve all
difficulties is beyond us, there is nevertheless a solution. To do otherwise
would be not only anti-Protestant (since it violates Sola scriptura), but
anti-Catholic and anti-Christian as well."


pages 322 & 323 from the book "Why Catholic Bibles are Bigger: The
untold story of the lost books of the Protestant Bible" by Gary G. Michuta
(copyright) 2007



Gary's book is a good book if you want to know why the Roman Canon is the way it is. He ignores the Eastern Canons. The book is mainly a Roman Catholic vs Protestant book. But he raises a good point that non should miss. when we argue our positions, we need to have a little foresight of what some of the implications might be. Or else we will be shooting ourselves in the foot. Higher Criticism is a cancer that has plagued all of christiandom.

It has plaqued Protestantism, Roman Catholicism and in recent decades Eastern Orthodoxy.

And it all has it's roots in the Protestant/Roman Catholic Bible wars of the 15 to 17 hundreds. In the 17 to 19 hundreds, liberal prots have used those same methods to rip the rest of the Bible apart.

So we have to be careful in how we debate....or else we will create another monster that will come back to haunt us.






JNORM888
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4 comments:

Kevin Jackson said...

Interesting, I see the point he's making. One could make the same arguments about Jonah (could someone really live in a fish?), Or Noah (can all the species fit in an ark?) or Job (are there really fire breathing sea monsters?)...etc.

Also, aren't there references to the Deuto-conanical books in the NT? I seem to remember having read that there are...

April 16, 2008 at 5:13 PM
Jnorm said...

There are allusions, recontextualizations, and maybe paraphrases to some of them.

I know Cdero(a Calvinistic Protestant) made a point of it somewhere, and and Phatcat(a Roman Catholic).


I'll try to find some references.



JNORM888

April 16, 2008 at 8:31 PM
Jnorm said...

These are from the RSV

Matthew 4:4
"But he answered, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.'""

with

Wisdom of Solomon 16:26
"so that thy sons, whom thou didst love, O Lord, might learn that it is not the production of crops that feeds man, but that thy word preserves those who trust in thee."



Mark 9:48
where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched.

with

Judith 16:17
Woe to the nations that rise up against my people! The Lord Almighty will take vengeance on them in the day of judgment; fire and worms he will give to their flesh; they shall weep in pain for ever.


This is the one I really wanted to find.

James 1:13
"Let no one say when he is tempted, "I am tempted by God"; for God cannot be tempted with evil and he himself tempts no one; "

with

Sirach 15:11-14
"Do not say, "Because of the Lord I left the right way"; for he will not do what he hates.
15:12
Do not say, "It was he who led me astray"; for he had no need of a sinful man.
15:13
The Lord hates all abominations, and they are not loved by those who fear him.
15:14
It was he who created man in the beginning, and he left him in the power of his own inclination."


Romans 9:19
"You will say to me then, "Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?""

with

Wisdom of Solomon 12:12
"For who will say, "What hast thou done?" Or will resist thy judgment? Who will accuse thee for the destruction of nations which thou didst make? Or who will come before thee to plead as an advocate for unrighteous men?"



Romans 9:21
"Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for beauty and another for menial use?"

with

Wisdom 15:7
"For when a potter kneads the soft earth and laboriously molds each vessel for our service, he fashions out of the same clay both the vessels that serve clean uses and those for contrary uses, making all in like manner; but which shall be the use of each of these the worker in clay decides.""





I forgot that I had this link in my resource list.

http://www.scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html

anotherone is:

http://www.cin.org/users/james/files/deutero3.htm





JNORM888

April 17, 2008 at 4:47 PM
Jnorm said...

Hebrews 11:35 & 2 Maccabees 7




JNORM888

April 17, 2008 at 4:55 PM
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