Ancient Christian Witness

Quote:
What was Adam's image? Adam's image was corrupted by his sin.
Therefore, Seth was made in the image and likeness of one whose original image
and likeness after God, was corrupted.

Not exactly, When talking to Noah, God said:

Genesis 9:6
"Whoever sheds the blood of man, by man shall his blood be shed; for in the image of God has God made man."


So yes, it is true that directly we are made in the image and likeness of Adam, but God still made it seem as if "Indirectly" mankind in general was still made in the image of God. When Adam fell, he was corrupt, but not destroyed. He was marred, but not annihilated.

Being "made" in God's image isn't something we have. It is something we are. In order for it to be gone we must be gone. It is us, and we are it.

Also Paul says "we" are God's offspring.

Acts 17:29
"Therefore since we are God's offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone—an image made by man's design and skill."


So we may not be "perfect images" anymore, but we are still images....just marred/broken images.

So the Adamic nature is only in the sense of "decay". We are decaying because of Adam's separation from God. This is what "death" means.

We "die" because we are "separated" from God. Jesus came to give us "life".

So it is through Jesus, who is the perfect image of God that unites us with the Father again. And it is this unity that gives us "life".

Quote:
Ephesians 2:3 tells us that, by nature, we were children of wrath
before Christ saved us. Being children of wrath by nature, being corrupted by
sin and inheriting the image and likeness of Adam, how could any of us have been
"in God"

Eph 2:3
"among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others."


According to Eph 2:3 we were children of wrath not by nature, but by choice. The Adamic nature wasn't the cause for the Wrath of God. It was our "participation" in the desires/cravings of the flesh that caused His wrath to be on us."


We can see this for those who are in christ:

Galatians 5:24
And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.


God's wrath isn't really on the Adamic nature in and of itself. It is on those who participate in it's passions. Because of the fall, the Adamic nature gives us a tendency to sin, but it doesn't give us the "necessity" to sin.

Those who are in Christ still have the Adamic nature......we are still in the decaying body that came from Adam. And it is because of this decay that we have these cravings, and desires.

God is always in us.....or else He wouldn't be Omni-Present. Also His mark will always be part of our make up because being in His Image is what we are......it is not something we have.

Quote:
Being "in God" requires a choice on God's part to place us in Him,
because by nature, we were children of wrath. In Adam, all die.

When it comes to being "in God" there are many different levels. Because of God's Omni-Presence everyone and everything is in God in a generic sense.

To a greater degree all of mankind has God's mark(trademark) on them because He made us in His image. So when you look at fallen man you are looking at a broken/imperfect image of God.

And I would say that "because of Adam" all die. But even if you want to say "in Adam" all die, that's fine too...for

Romans 5:12
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned—

For Death came to all men. God's wrath is in regards to us sinning. It is not in regards to us dying.

Jesus will oneday raise everyone from the dead.

Romans 5:18
"Consequently, just as the result of one trespass was condemnation for all men, so also the result of one act of righteousness was justification that brings life for all men."

Paul was using the word "justification" in the same sense as Romans 4:25

"He was delivered over to death for our sins and was raised to life for our justification."


But those who have their sins "expiated" through His blood will be forgivin and reconciled back to the Father.

So when we are raised the word "Justification" will be in the same sense as "Romans 5:9"

"Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him! 10For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"



Those who are in Christ are on their way of becoming "perfect images" of God...not even Adam was like this.....for he was created in a glorified state.....he sinned before he was ever glorified.

Quote:
We are "in God" because God Himself chose us
(believers) to be in Him before the foundation of the world. Before He created
man in His image and His likeness. Before the man He created in that image
rebelled against God's authority. And He has made us accepted in the beloved
(who is Christ).

This type of being in God is a higher form than what I was talking about. I was talking in generic terms.

When fallen images are in Christ, they have a greater(richer) presence of God in them than other fallen images.


So it would go something like this.


God's presense is universal. In a generic way He is in everyone.

God's presence to a greater degree is in mankind, because mankind was made in His image, and eventhough fallen he is not destroyed.



God's presense to a higher degree is when a fallen image is reborn in Christ.


and even still, God's presence to the greatest degree is when a fallen image is glorified.




This was all I was talking about.

Quote:
If God is light, and in Him there is no darkness
at all, how is it that those who walk in darkness are "in God"?

They are in God in a lesser degree. God is both immenant as well as transcendent. This is why God is "OMNI-PRESENT".

The Context of 1st John 1:5 is not talking about God's Omni-presence.

This is seen by

This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all. If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth. But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives."


Do you sin? If so then how can you....as a christian be "In Him" and sin? You don't believe that a person can loose their salvation so how can you sin and still be "In Him", if there is no darkness in Him?


It's obvious that this text isn't talking about the Omni-Presence of God.

John is using "In HIM" in a different "sense".....a different context.

Quote:
I've read up a little bit on the Eastern and
Oriental Orthodox view of Panentheism as well. Is that where you're coming
from?

Yeah, to be honest.....I think every christian is a Panentheist to some degree. Or else they can't believe God to be Omni-Present....both Transcendent & Immenant.


Panentheism, is the way we(Orthodox and some protestants) understand God's Attributes.










JNORM888