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Quote: Originally Posted by Yung Lion Been thinking about this verse for a couple weeks... What does it mean to for husbands to "live p...
I don't think he knows that classical Nestorians as well as modern Calvinists also embrace the heresy. He thinks it was only the Monophy...
There is a link between Calvinism and our modern use of Usury. We now live in an age where High Usury against is commonplace, yet the Bible ...
The actual text: http://septuagint-interlinear-greek-bible.com/OldTestament.pdf This is from the website " The Apostolic Bible p...
As seen from princeton.edu : Quote: "Saturday, February 12, 2011 8:30 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. Taking our cue from Fr. Florovsky, who wrote ...
What does the word ιλαστηριον (hilasterion) mean in Romans 3:25? NKJV verses 24-26 "24 being justified freely by His grace throug...
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This is Her Baptism video!!!
This is a snippet of her story. You can catch the full thing at the other blogs.
"In a nutshell: I was born and raised Hindu, then was Baha’i
for 5 years (2002-2007) before becoming Christian and finding the Orthodox
How exactly did this happen? Well, as a Hindu, what I learned
about other religions were that there are many paths up the same spiritual
mountain to reach God. Maybe even the belief that the differences argued about
between different religions are like the blind men in a room with an elephant,
each feeling a different part and jumping to a different conclusion about what
it is - each accurately describing in his own way what one aspect of the
elephant was like, but unable to see the whole, and so thinking the others were
wrong. So I didn't really care that other religions said different things on
certain subjects, I just followed "my" way that I inherited from my family and
culture. I believed there was great wisdom in it, and assumed that other
religions probably also had great wisdom in them. I became interested in reading
about other religions as a hobby - and loved seeing that the core spiritual
teachings/messages seemed similar - about love, prayer, detachment, and
renunciation of self. It should be noted I wasn't reading about hardcore
theology of various religions - I was reading the writings of various spiritual
masters, mystical works, mythology, stuff like that. I had no urge to look
deeper into this mystery of how there were all these different religions, or of
looking more closely at the differences; I thought it was a waste of time,
foolish. One thing I didn't realize though, was that that whole blind men and
elephant analogy? It assumes that no particular religion truly has an
understanding of God - well, I understood that, but it didn't really bother me.
It never occurred to me that possibly one of the religions actually sees the
whole elephant, rather than only seeing a part. The idea was that it didn't
matter - you didn't need to understand the elephant as an elephant to get to
God, in fact maybe it was humanly impossible anyway, for people to conceive of
these things. It never occurred to me that God might have ever approached us
with a very particular way that He wanted us to approach Him, rather my focus
was on our imperfect selves trying to reach towards God.
Then I came
across the Baha'i Faith - it claimed to reveal the elephant itself, saying that
in the past, people were only ready to be exposed to whatever particular part
God saw was fit at the time. So all the previous religions were chapters in one
book, leading up to this chapter called the Baha'i Faith that reveals the unity
of all religions. But not in a mysterious way - it sought to provide distinct
proofs for this. This is what finally made me start looking analytically and
critically at all the world religions, including the Baha'i Faith, to see how
God's web of different religions were really and truly connected. This was key -
until I started being more demanding, I was undiscerning in my happiness to just
accept all religions as they were, like different flavors of ice cream. I
enjoyed what flowed; I ignored what clashed, figuring it was just to be
expected, realistically. Different people will see through different lenses. But
as a Baha'i, I was told that if I looked really hard, I would see that all the
different religions really were one, and furthermore that all of them awaited a
Messianic figure whom Baha'is believed to have come in the person of Baha'u'llah
in the 19th century, founder of the Baha'i Faith. This fascinated me - and both
to better educate myself and also to be able to teach members of other religions
about the Baha'i Faith, I started studying.
Now rather than leaving it
all up to mystery, I said the Baha'i faith had specific explanations as to how
all the religions are different paths to one God, right? This was critical - in
the Hindu mindset, I would never had tools/measuring sticks that I expected to
actually work in this undertaking, so I would never seriously have undertaken
it, or would not have had a way of disproving/testing/evaluating any of these
beliefs about religions being essentially equal. At best, I would have prayed
like Sri Ramakrishna, who claims that Jesus, Mohammed, and other figures came to
him when he prayed, and so he believed whomever you prayed to, God would come to
you in that form - he experienced that, so he believed that, never thinking
maybe it was a delusion. As Orthodox monks say, you can have delusions, or you
can even have demons that approach you as angels of light! Anyway, back to the
story. The Baha'i Faith stated that all the different religions have the same,
unchanging, essential, ethical and spiritual teachings about God and soul and
our purpose, but have different social teachings about externals, or even about
things like marriage - these changing teachings are meant to suit the particular
people/culture/time to whom the religion is brought by a Prophet/Manifestation.
However, sometimes even the unchanging spiritual teachings are lost or corrupted
over time, and that also explains for some of the differences. We could only
tell what was right by measuring it against Baha'u'llah's explanation of all
that was true and false, for he had come to restore truth. This starts a nice
and neat process of circular thinking for determining what was true and what was
false in all the various world religions, to make them all match the Baha'i
Faith. It can be used to explain away anything, to make night appear to be day -
in fact, Baha'u'llah even says that you mustn't question the
Prophet/Manifestation, that you should even accept that day is night if he tells
you that. Then he also says we must be independent investigators of truth,
listening to no one - all these contradictions, but everyone denies they are
contradictory, believing all these paradoxes are true in some mysterious
spiritually wise way."
To read the rest, please visit one of the other blogs here or here.
Anjali's Journy: part 2
As seen from googlevideo:
"A talk given by Paul Finley, Executive Director of the Antiochian Village Heritage and Learning Center, at St. Michael's Orthodox Christian Church in Greensburg, PA on February 23, 2008. Introduction by Father John Nosal"
The google video link
For some reason, blogger isn't alwys able to play "googlevideo" vids.....so it may not work.
Pygmies, Unicorns, Griffon, Basilisk, the Phoenix, Natural History and the "re-interpretation of scripture"
Unicorns-Numbers 23:22; 24:8; Deuteronomy 33:17, Job 39:9; Psalms 22:21; 29:6, 92:10, Isaiah 34:7
Griffon-Leviticus 11:13; Deuteronomy 14:12
The Basilisk-Psalms 91:13, Proverbs 23:32; Jeremiah 8:17; Isaiah 59:5
The Phoenix (Septuagint)-Psalm 92:12
In chapter 3(Two reformations, in the section "Aristotle and the encyclopaedias) of the book "The Bible, Protestantism, and the rise of Natural science", Dr. Peter Harrison noted how the Emprical world was eventually used to re-interprete texts.
"The textual bias of this humanist version of natural
history is evident still in the seventeenth century, where it is conspicuous in
the popular digests made by such writers as Topsell, Johnston, and Franzius'
Historiae animalium(1612) is drawn chiefly from scripture, with additional
references to Aristotle, Virgil, and Aelian. Franzius, a Professor of Divinity
at Wittenberg, seems not to have seen an elephant, and if he had, did not see
fit to add his own observations to those of the authorities. He informs the
reader that he begins with the elephant because 'Job in his 40th Chap: maketh
this creature to be the beginning of the wayes of God, or the very first work of
God.' The great size of the creature is inferred from its name (Behema), and
from literary allusions to its tail, its thirst, its teeth, its footprints, and
It was not only exotic or rare species which were described
from the works of others. Even the most familiar animals drew their being from
the classics and from scripture. Johnston was a Scot who had made his home in
Poland. In his History of the Nature of Four-Footed Beasts (1678) he pieced
together a description of the horse from Porphyry, Xenophon, Vegetius, Nolanus,
Aristotle, Pliny, Plutarch, Sertorius, Varro, and other authorities. The
compilation of a natural history thus afforded the writer the opportunity to
display the extent of his learning thus afforded the writer the opportunity to
display the extent of his learning. It was not the observation of animals and
plants which counted, but whether all the relevant written sources had been
consulted. This approach accounted for the inclusion in natural histories of
many beats the existence of which, to say the least, was doubtful. True,
Isidore's dogheaded, one-eyed, one-legged, or headless men now rarely appeared.
but in the interests of comprehensiveness, Zoological works commonly carried
descriptions of such fantastic creatures as satyres, unicorns, mermaids,
manticores, gragons, lamias, and griffons. To neglect to mention any animal was
failure of scholarship. From the point of view of the advocate of the new
empirical science of the seventeenth century, such writers of natural history
were mere 'scoliasts and copyists' who 'to the end that their volumes might grow
to the desired bulk, do write and copy all sorts about ever so many things of
which they know naught for certain in the light of experience.' The complaint
seems justified, but is anachronistic. The encyclopaedists did not seek to
provide naked descriptions of living things, based upon observations of nature,
for they saw as an integral part of their task the location of living things
within a broader literary context, a context in which physical description was
merely one element amongst many. Their aim went beyond description to
Natural history, we shall not be surprised to learn,
remained closely associated with the interpretation of scripture. For many, the
landscape in which the creature was to be encountered was still primarily the
sacred page. Stephan Batman wrote in his prologue to the sixteenthcentury
translation of Bartholomew's De propietatibus rerum, that 'all these properties
of things be necessary and of great valew to them that will be desirous to
understand the obscurities or darkness of the holy Scriptures, which are given
to us under figures, under parables & semblance or likelihood of things
naturalls & artificialls.' Wolfgang Franzius informed the readers of his
Historiae animalium that the treatise should be of use and benefit 'not only to
physicians, but also to all scholars, and more especially to Divines,' who will
find it to be 'very useful in sermons' (thus vindicating the view of a later
writer that tomes of natural history ' serve for nothing else but for idle
priests, to make their sermons more gaudy'). Edward Topsell had compiled his
Histories of foure-Footed Beasts (1607) out of Gesner with the laudable
intention of acquainting his readers with all the animals referred to in
Scripture. The Herbal for the Bible (1587) of Levinus Lemnius dealt with the
'Similtudes, Parables, and Metaphores, both in the olde Testament and the Newe,
as are borrowed and taken from Herbs, Plants, Trees, Fruits, and Simples.' One
hundred years later, the Historia vegetabilium sacra (1695) of William
Westmacott provided the same service to readers, discoursing rationally upon
'all the trees, shrubs, herbs, plants, flowers, fruits, &c. mentioned in the
Holy Bible,' as if these plants were somehow possessed of a special status. Such
writers perpetuated the Augustinian tradition according to which the study of
nature was undertaken primarily to assist in the interpretation of the sacred
Scripture also played an important role in preservation of beasts
which might otherwise have been consigned to oblivion. Those sceptical about the
existence of pygmies, unicorns, griffons, the basilisk, and the phoenix needed
only to consult the pages of scripture to have their doubts dismissed.
Additional corroboration often came from equally revered sources. 'The Hebrew
names in Scripture prove Unicorns', declared Topsell, confident that this was
sufficient to silence most sceptics. Indeed, there are no fewer than eight
separate references to unicorns in the Old Testament. A more extended argument
appears in Franzius, who in his section on the unicorn asks first whether they
exist, and second whether they might not be identified with the 'rhinoscerote'.
On the first head he reasons in this fashion: 'the Scripture draweth many
inferences from the nature of this beast, and doth apply them to good men and
bad men, nay even to Christ himself, therefore it must necessarily follow that
there are such creatures as Unicorns'. As to the second question, he concludes
after an examination of the relevant Hebrew words that there are in fact two
distinct creatures-the unicorn with a single horn, and the rhinoscerote with a
large and a small horn. Franzius concludes his discussion of the unicorn by
setting out a complicated strategem for capturing them which involved, amongst
other things, dressing a strong young man in women's clothes clothes and dousing
him liberally with perfume.
If Topsell and Franzius were to argue for
the existence of unicorns on the basis of scriptural references, they needed to
be sure that the relevant Hebrew words actually referred to the unicorn, and not
to some other creature(such as the rhinoceros). At this point, the relevance of
the study of the etymologies of Hebrew words, comparison of biblical texts,
consideration of textual variations, and consultation of rabbinical writings
becomes apparent. At times this would actually lead to the extinction of some
fabulous creature rather than its preservation. Textual and philological studies
could break the presumed corroboration between various ancient sources, or could
show that a particular word had simply been mistranslated. This was particularly
important in those instances in which scripture was presumed to lend support to
ancient testimonies to the existence of mythical creatures. Thomas Browne's
Pseudodoxia Epidemica(1646) contains a number of such analyses, many of which
relyupon the previous work of Aldrovandi and Gesner. Browne thought it doubtful,
for instance, that the men of Tyre had employed pygmies less than eighteen
inches tall to guard their towers, as the book of Ezekiel seemed to suggest. (In
the Latin of the Vulgate the relevant verse reads: pigmaei erant in turribus
tuis'.) Not only would this have been a questionable military tactic, but as
Browne points out, the Latin pygmaei commonly used to sanction their existence
is a translation of the original Hebrew word Gammadim, which 'is very variously
rendred [sic]'. After a consideration of various texts and translations, he
concluded that scriptural evidence for pygmies is doubtful. Similar analyses are
given of biblical references to the griffin, the phoenix, and the unicorn.
Initially, then, the recognition of such distortions in written
authorities did not lead to an appeal to the empirical world. Instead, the
correction of the errors came to be a special work of scholarship, in which
texts were compared, their sources painstakingly identified. Special attention
was paid to the translations of names, to the etymologies of words, and to
likely sources of scribal infelicities. Only gradually did it dawn on scholars
that the empirical world might serve as a standard by which textual accounts of
living things should be judged." 
You won't see the word "Unicorn" in your Bible because they translate it as either "Wild Oxen or Wild Beast". But it's there........they just changed the interpretation. I think they should return back to the interpretation of "Unicorn". But that's just me.
 pages 74-77 from the book "The Bible, Protestantism, and the rise of natural science" by Dr. Peter Harrison, Cambridge University Press
This is from the Washington Times.
"Monday, December 29, 2008
In a ceremony redolent with incense and rich with tradition, about 300 members and friends of the Orthodox Church in America gathered Sunday at St. Nicholas Cathedral in the District to enthrone 49-year-old Metropolitan Jonah as the head of the church in North America.
Metropolitan Jonah stressed the uniqueness of the Christian message during his 15-minute homily Sunday. He asserted Jesus' mission of "love and forgiveness." (Astrid Riecken/The Washington Times)
The meteoric rise of Jonah, who was only elected as bishop of Fort Worth, Texas, less than four months ago, shows a great "hunger for change" in the OCA, his former seminary dean said.
"Change in the sense of a new engagement in the life of the church, in terms of parish renewal," Mr. Hopko added.
In a 15-minute homily, Jonah stressed not the occasion of his elevation, but rather the uniqueness of the Christian message.
"The real essence of who we are is hidden with Christ," said Jonah, a former Orthodox monastic.
About 300 members and friends of the Orthodox Church in America gathered Sunday at St. Nicholas Cathedral in the District to enthrone 49-year-old Metropolitan Jonah as the head of the church in North America.
"It's about how we live, [and] what witness is in our hearts," he told the congregation in the cathedral, as well as about 50 others in an overflow room watching via closed-circuit television. "God is out there, but He is in the depths of our being. What's most important is that inner witness and pristine beauty of that person who is united with Christ."
Jonah asserted that Jesus "has given us a unique mission ... go forth and reveal to people God's love and forgiveness." In so doing, he said, "we will be transformed into living icons of Jesus Christ.""
To read the rest go to the Washington Times webpage.
This one was really really good.
As seen from the webpage:
"Ex-member of the hard-core Christian rock band East West (2002 Dove Award Winner!) speaks about the Christian Contemporary Music Industry, the reality of touring life on the road, the spiritual and physical exhaustion that eventually led him to examine his faith and eventually discovery of the Eastern Orthodox Church."
As seen from the website:
"The journey of the "Evangelical Orthodox" into canonical Orthodoxy.In 1987 2,000 Evangelicals were brought into the Antiochian Orthodox Church en masse after years of searching for the "phantom Church". One of the group's leaders, Fr Jon Braun, talks about the journey, college campus ministry and the challenges and victories of the past 20 years."
"Raised by the Hell’s Angel’s motorcycle gang as a youth, John Franklin lived a hell on earth before submitting to Christ and discovering The Orthodox Church while serving a third-term in prison. A story of (continuing) repentance and the grace and mercy of God, this is one you won’t want to miss!"
As seen from the website:
"Dr. Mary Ward (PhD.), a life-long member of the Roman Catholic Church and professor of Theology at a major Jesuit University, tells us why she left the church of her youth and joined the Orthodox Church (Greek jurisdiction) as an adult."
As seen from the website:
"A fascinating interview with Fr. Gregory Hogg, an Antiochian priest in Western Michigan. Fr. Gregory was a Missouri Synod Lutheran pastor and professor for 22 years before coming to Orthodoxy. He also recently spoke at the Faith of our Fathers colloquium for Lutherans on Eastern Orthodoxy and his lecture along with many others will soon be available for download on Ancient Faith Radio."
As seen from the website:
"This interview recounts the fascinating story of the dramatic conversion to Christ (from Orthodox Judaism) and the spiritual journey of a co-founder of the messianic Christian group, "Jews for Jesus" as he finds his way "home" to the Eastern Orthodox Church."
"Kevin's guest, Keith Elmore, discusses his journey from Pentecostal preacher (since the age of ten!) to Holy Orthodoxy."
"Steve McMeans interviews his co-host, Kevin Allen, about
his experiences as the novice of a Hindu guru, and his journey to
As seen from the webpage:
"The traveling AFR microphone was in Minneapolis recentlyhttp://orthodoxprisonministry.org/
with Fr. Tom Soroka of The Path. He was a guest speaker at St Mary's Cathedral
in Minneapolis and while there, interviewed three individuals about an active
local prison ministry. The director's name is Paul Hatjistilianos, and the other
two volunteers are Sandra Anderson and Rick Wagner."
As seen from the webpage:
"On November 12, 2008, a remarkable thing happened in
Pittsburgh, PA. Just 11 days after his consecration as Bishop of Fort Worth and
Auxiliary Bishop of the Diocese of the South, Bishop Jonah was elected
Archbishop of Washington and New York and Metropolitan of All American and
Canada for the Orthodox Church in America. Kevin Allen was able to spend well
over an hour on the phone with His Beatitude Jonah in a candid and fascinating
interview that we are bringing you in 2 parts. In this first part we learn about
his background, personal interests, conversion to Orthodoxy and the monastic
life. Next week we will bring you part 2."
Orthodox Elder Cleopa - On prayer from this_is_ortodoxy on Vimeo.
As seen from the webpage:
"The name and personality of Elder Cleopa Ilie of Romania is
today known not only in his homeland but also throughout the world. Father
Cleopa was born in 1912 in the town of Soulitsa and district of Botosani into a
pious village family and named Constantine. His parents were called Alexander
and Anna and he was the ninth of their ten children. The religious upbringing
that he and all his siblings received from childhood as well as their great
inclination toward the monastic life were so strong that five of the ten
children, along with their mother in her later years, took up the monastic life
and were clothed in the monastic Schema.
The first duty Father Cleopa
sought from the faithful was the devout preservation of the Orthodox Faith,
meaning all of the dogmas and mysteries of the Holy Orthodox Church, for without
true Faith, even if all possible good works are performed, no one can be
"Holy Trinity's Pantocrator: The Ultimate Mosaic" FEATURE from Anthony Catchatoorian on Vimeo.
As seen from the webpage:
"Providing a comprehensive look at the process of creating
the largest mosaic face of Jesus Christ in the Western Hemisphere, this
documentary will tell the story of how Holy Trinity’s Pantocrator finally became
a reality, becoming one of San Francisco’s treasured landmarks. Produced by
90 years old ORTHODOX Pr. Sofian Boghiu - Inner Purification from this_is_ortodoxy on Vimeo.
As seen from the webpage:
"He was 90 years old at the interview shortly before he went
to meet Christ.
Father Sofian Boaghiu of Antim Monastery was sentenced
to 15 years of hard labor in 1958 by the communists for keeping the true
Orthodox faith and refusing to become atheist!"
It's a chart that shows some of the different books in various canons.
As seen from the webpage:
"Jews and Christians throughout the centuries have producedhttp://www.biblestudymagazine.com/interactive/canon/
bibles that vary in content and organization. This chart is a sampling of the
different bibles used today.
Protestant Reformers like Martin Luther doubted
the canonicity* Canon: (kanōn; κανών) comes from the Greek word for
“reed” or “rod,” used as a straight edge or ruler for measurement. In biblical
studies, when we talk about a canon, we mean that list of books that a community
considers both authoritative and inspired. Canonical books form the standard
against which other writings, doctrines and practices are measured. of the Apocrypha*Apocrypha: Jerome, the translator of the early Latin
Bible, maintained a distinction between those books he considered canonical and
the non-canonical books that should be read for the edification of the church.
With some modification, this list of edifying books is sometimes called the
“Apocrypha.” Other theologians, such as the influential Augustine, did not
maintain this distinction, and were more inclusive in their canon lists. , but when Luther prepared his translation of the
Bible into German, he did not remove the Apocrypha; he simply moved those books
to an appendix. This tradition continues in many European bibles.
English were the first group of people to remove the Apocrypha altogether. In
1599, an edition of the Geneva Bible was published without the Apocrypha. In
1615, during the reign of King James the First, George Abbot, the Archbishop of
Canterbury, declared the penalty for printing a Bible without the Apocrypha to
be a year in prison! But over the next three centuries the growing influence of
Puritans and Presbyterians over the populace, the government, and the British
and Foreign Bible Society led to a strong tradition of printing bibles
containing only 66 books.
The situation today reflects this bifurcation. The
bibles used by many European Protestants, as well as the Anglican Church, still
include the Apocrypha. Most other English-speaking Protestant churches have
bibles without the Apocrypha.
Dead Sea Scrolls Bible
A reflected Egyptian Bible
Answering a question about the Ethiopian Canon
Sola Scriptura & the Canons of scripture
When did the Jews(nonbelieving) "officially" reject the Deuterocanon?
The myth of the closed canon of 70 - 90 A.D.
The Letter of Aristeas and it's ussage of the word "LAW"
The Formation of the Scriptures
Pygmies, Unicorns, Griffon, Basilisk, the Phoenix, Natural History and the "re-interpretation of scripture"
Differences in Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura
Economics, Calvinism & the Demise of the Deuterocanon in Protestant Bibles
Early Protestant Bibles with 80 books (39 Old Test. + 14 Apocrypha + 27 New Test)
Speaking Of Sola Scriptura
As seen from the website:
"Fr. Thomas Hopko presents a meditation on how the
liturgical services of Christmas and Epiphany pattern those of the Christ’s Holy
Pascha of Easter."
As seen from the website:
"On the 1st two Sundays before Christmas, we commerate and
sing about all of the faithful throughout the ages who prepared for the birth of
Christ. Fr. Tom references the book "Surprised by Chris"t by Fr. A. James
Bernstein which is available from Conciliar Press."
This is from the podcast The Illumined Heart, this week Turbo interviews Ft. Moses.
As seen from the website.
"Join guest host Turbo Qualls and OCA priest, author, and
president of The Brotherhood of St Moses the Black, Fr. Moses Berry, in their
conversation about Orthodox Christianity and why it is a gift to African
Deacon Michael Bishop
The Brotherhood of Saint Moses the black
St. Mary of Egypt Orthodox Church
Ozarks Afro-American Heritage Museum!
Pics from the conference earlier this year.
Being African American & Eastern Orthodox
Jazz Musician Becomes an Orthodox Christian
"Hey fam just got home from a friends house where I was
talking to a member of the church of Christ.
I just have some questions.
Anybody here in church of Christ?
What exactly do they believe?
What is correct in their belief?
What are the faults in their
I should get a good number of responses(I hope), since
Calvinism, Pentecostals, and Baptists were some of the many listed on their
"false doctrine" pamphlet."
Originally Posted by t-roberts:
I go to a "Church og God" church, and we don't believe any of that nonsense. We are just arminian (except me) in our beliefs.
My Responce to T-Roberts:
Your Church of God is Holiness, or maybe Pentecostal. The Worldwide Church of God comes from the millerite movement......the same movement as the first day adventists, the Seventhday Adventists, and Jehovia Witnesses.
You might know them as "The Armstrong Worldwide Church of God international"
Or something like that.
The Cambellites are from a totally different stream from your group "Church of God holiness or Church of God Cleveland Tenessee". They are also different from the "Millerite movement".
The Cambellites were heavily influenced by Methodhists, Landmark Baptists, and Prespyterianism. They were mostly influenced by Prespyterianism, but their Baptism distinctives comes from Land Mark Baptists......who are also very exclusive.
You can still find Land Mark Baptists today, if you read up on them and what they believe then you can see why the Church of Christ is saying some of the stuff it says. They are pretty much copying the Land Mark Baptists in certain areas.
Some people may not know this group of Baptists by the term "Land Mark"....another name is "Baptist briders".
If you look at who all influenced the Cambellites then you will understand why they believe some of the stuff they do.
(below is a quote or two from the handbook of denominations)
christian churches (the stone-cambell movement)
protestantism, with its emphasis on the bible alone as the basis of
faith, has always sought to remain true to the church of the apostles in the new
testament. Most protestants have been willing to accept some historical
development of the church and its doctrine in the post biblical period,
accepting the apostles' creed, for example. There have been others, though, who
have seen most of the history of christianity as the story of decline from new
testament purity. These christians have attempted to "restore" original or
"primitive" christianity by purging the church of all nonbiblical elements,
incuding creeds and confessions of faith. During the second great awakening
(beginning at the end of the 18nth century and continuing through the first two
decades of the 19nth century), this restorationist impulse grew particularly
strong. In politics, the u.s. Had "restored" greek democracy; many thought
americans could also restore the structure to the new testament alone, without
recourse to creeds or rituals, the restorationists also hoped to end fraternal
strife among churches.
Thomas campbell (1763-1854) was a scottish
presbyterian who left his church in ireland to come to western pennsylvania in
1807. Campbell was convinced that the historical creeds and confessions of the
church were a source of christian division rather than union, and he preached
that all christians should share in the lord's supper together. When his views
led to a censure from the presbyterians (see presbyterian churches) in 1809, he
formed the christian association of washington county, pennsylvania, and
published the declaration and address, which was to become the magna carta of
the restorationist movement. In that document he argued that "schism, or
uncharitable divisions" in the church were "anti-christian, anti-scriptural, and
anti-natural" and "productive of confusion and every evil work." the church and
church membership should be based solely upon the belief and practices of new
testament christianity, he maintained; the articles of faith and holiness
"expressly revealed in the word of god" were quite enough, without adding human
opinions or creedal inventions. The bible, campbell asserted, was a reasonable
book that any reasonable person could read and understand; therefore, there is
no need for creeds or other human interpretations. God has spoken clearly, and
the bible lays down the rules for church practices. "we will speak when the
scriptures speak, and remain silent when they are silent." with that phrase,
campbell abolished many traditional church practices, such as days of fasting
and the use of musical intruments in worship.
Campbell's son, alexander
(1788-1866), was less scholarly than his father, but more dynamic and consistent
in his application of his father's principles. He convinced thomas that infant
baptism was not christian, and in 1812 all of the campbells were immersed by a
local baptist minister. However, even the baptists were not biblical enough for
the campbelss. Father and son continued their independent evangelical work, and
alexander fought many public battles against atheism, mormonism, unitarianism,
creedalism, sectarianism, emotionalism, and even slavery; but he was singularly
unsuccessful in bringing about church unity. His noncreedal church became one of
the first independent denominations to be born in the united states.
other major branch of the nineteenth-century restorationist movement had its
origins in the convictions of james o' kelly (1757-1826), a methodist minister;
abner jones (1772-1841), a baptist; and barton stone (1771-1844), a
presbyterian. In 1792, o' kelly withdrew from the methodist church (see
methodist churches) in protest over the recently established episcopacy. He
especially objected to the power of bishops to appoint ministers to their
charges. O' kelly and his followers organized under the name republican
methodist; the new church insisted that the bible be taken as the only
requirement for church membership.
Abner jones, convinced that
"sectarian names and human creeds should be abandoned," left the vermont
baptists (see baptist churches) in 1801 to organize first christian church at
lyndon, vermont. This was done from a desire to secure a wider freedom of
religious thought and fellowship. Like o' kelly, jones insisted that piety and
character be the sole test of christian fellowship.
When the second
great awakening swept through tennessee and kentucky in the early 1800s,
preaching focused on the need for conversion rather than denominational or
doctrinal distinctions. Barton stone was instrumental in the famous cane ridge,
kentucky, revival, which began on august 7, 1801. Somewhere between 10,000 and
25,000 people appeared during the weeklong revival in which preachers from a
variety of churches took part. Participants desribed the event as a new
pentecost where thousands were converted, often with dramatic emotional
displays. The experience of the revival convinced stone that salvation has
little to do with church affiliation and that "deeds are more important than
credds." the egalitarian promise of the american revolution was being felt in
cane ridge and other western "camp meeting" revivals, but the controversy over
them led to a schism in the presbyterian church.
The groups led by o'
kelly, jones, and stone engaged in a long series of conferences that resulted in
agreement on six basic christian principles: (1) christ, the only head of the
church; (2) the bible, sufficient rule of faith and practice; (3) christian
character, the measure of membership; (4) a right, individual interpretation of
the scripture, as a way of life; (5) "christian," the name taken as worthy of
the followers of christ; (6) unity, christians working together to save the
By 1832 the "stoneeites" and the "campbellites" had come together
for a meeting in lexington, kentucky. Stone used the word christian to designate
his group, feeling that all of god's children should be known as such. Alexander
campbell used the phrase "disciples of christ." after 1832, some of the
christians and the disciples of christ merged; both names are still used, but
commonly and officialy the body is known today as the christian church
(disciples of christ).
Early in the movement, walter scott (1796-1861)
popularized the term restoration, meaning the restoration of the new testament
pattern and practice. Like stone, scott was suspicious of the values of the
current revivalistic frenzies; he related faith more to the mind than to
emotions. He stressed the importance of faith together with repentance of sin
and baptism by immersion. Very soon thereafter, however, differences arose among
the restorationists, and, over time, distinct fellowships emerged. Devoted in
varying ways to the restoration ideal, several of these groups continue to be
"Churches of Christ
founded 1906, with roots to the
Membership: est 1,500,000 in over 10,000 churches (2000)
Largest of the bodies in the American restoration movement, Churches of Christ
are located throughout the nation but are concerntrated in the South and the
Southwest. As with the Christian Church (see Christian Churches and Churches of
Christ), the Churches of Christ reject the idea of denominationalism and have no
central headquarters; therefore, accurate statistics are impossible to attain.
This group has no governing bodies, but they do cooperate voluntarily in
international radio programs sponsored by any congregation.
The Churches of
Christ are anti-creedal and look for a Christian union based on the Bible alone.
They assert that the Bible is "the beginning place," in and through which
God-fearing people can achiev spirtual oneness. All Christians are to "speak
where the Bible speaks and to be silent where thebible is silent" in all matters
pertaining to faith and morals. Consequently, members recognize no other written
creed or confession of faith. In all religious matters, there must be a "thus
said the Lord."
The leaders among the Churches of Christ in the nineteenth
century were more conservative than their counterparts among the Disciples of
Christ. Stressing a strict adherence to the New Testament pattern of worship and
church organization, they refused to join any inter-congregational organization,
such as the missionary society. Worship was simple, and they opposed the
addition of instrumental music on the grounds that the New Testament did not
authorize it and that the early church did not use it. Around the beginning of
the twentieth century, the differences between the conservative and the more
liberal wings of the restoration movements became evident, and in the 1906
census of religious bodies, Churches of evident, and in the 1906 census of
religious bodies, Churches of Christ were listed separately for the first time.
Today one of the outstanding features of Churches of Christ is their
acceptance of the Bible as a true and completely adequate revelation. This basic
concept has resulted in such practices as weekly observances of the Lord's
Supper, Baptism by immersion, a cappella singing, a vigorous prayer life,
support of church needs through voluntary giving, and a program of preaching and
teaching of the Bible. This concept also explains the autonomy of local
churches, governed by elders and deacons appointed under New Testament
qualifications; dignified worship services; enthusiastic mission campaigns; and
far-flung benevolence, all financed by local churches.
Key doctrines of
Churches of Christ include belief in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost as
members of one Godhead; in the incarnation, virgen birth, and bodily
resurrection of Christ; and in the universality, virgin birth, and bodily
resurrection of Christ; and in the universality of sin after the age of
accountabilty, its only remedy the vicarious atonement of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Strong emphasis is also laid on the church as the body and bride of Christ. A
figurative, rather than literal, view is prevalent with reference to the book of
Revelation. Church membership is contingent upon an individual's faith in Jesus
Christ as the only begotten Son of God, repentance, confession of faith, and
baptism by immersion for the remission of sins. Church attendance is stressed.
Churches of Christ maintain that the final judgement of all religious groups is
reserved to the Lord. This view, however, still allows for a vigorous evangelism
that finds unacceptable the "doctrines, practices, names, titles, and credds
that have been grafted onto the original practices of Christianity."
are ordained rather than licensed, and they hold tenure in their pulpits under
mutual agreement with the elders of the churches in which they preach.
Mininsterial authority is essentially moral; the actual governace of the church
is vested in its elders.
A vigorous missionary program is carried on in 92
nations outside the U.S., and in recent years a strong movement to extend the
influences of the church in the northeastern states of the U.S. has developed.
Counting native workers on the foreign field and mission activities within the
U.S., more than 1,000 missionaries or evangelists are suppported by groups other
than those to which they preach. Generally patriotic, the Churches of Christ
maintain a quota of chaplains in the U.S. military.
Churches of Christ
support 24 Bible colleges, liberal arts colleges, and universities and 27 high
and/or elementary schools in the U.S. They also sponsor numerous facilities for
care of the aged. The church publishes over one hundred periodicals, newspapers,
and magazines. published continually since the 1850s, except when it ceased
during the Civil War due to lack of mail delivery. The churches also carry on an
active ministry through the Internet. Since the statues of these institutions is
unofficial, and none is authorized to speak for the entire church, their
conformity in ideas and teachings is all the more remarkable. 
Originally Posted by Oppose3
j norm. outside of this report from the "handbook of denominations in the us" what's your take on them? have you encountered the church of christ (i'm guessing you're from pittsburgh....so, the Pittsburgh church of christ?)
My Responce to Oppose3:
Yes, I had contact with the more radical off shoot in Pittsburgh.
The Boston Church of Christ tend to focus on college students so you might find alot of disciples on campus all around the country. I met one some years ago near Pitt University.
I met more when I lived in Alabama some years ago. The ones I met down there were mostly from the more traditional Church of Christ. However, I am corrently in contact with a former member of the Boston Church of Christ. In recent years, alot of Church of Christ people (both from the Boston movement as well as from the regular Church of Christ movement) have been influenced by David Bercot, and that's how I got to meet alot of former members. Alot of them (former members I know) don't have anywhere to go, so they are in a state of limbo right now.
Most of them tend to be conservative, and they have high convictions.....so they refuse to fellowship with a church they feel lacks what they believe to be "true christian beliefs and practices".
With these folks, there is alot of cross breeding going on with the Mennonites.
But they are very sincere people, and alot of them have extremely high convictions and standards of what they think a christian fellowship should be.
To be honest, I never had any trouble with the Boston movement......nor with the other Church of Christ groups. I think it depends on how you talk to them.......and relate to them.
But then again.......I don't know......I just know .....I tend to get along with the ones I meet.
But just like with any group.......you do have alot of nominal members in regular Church of Christ churches. But that sort of thing is true with every group. Nominal members are everywhere and in every group. When I lived down south, I had a handfull of friends who were Church of Christ,.....so yeah, I met some and I visited one of their churches as well.
Alot of people might get turned off by their exclusive claims, but such a thing never bothered me. In the past.....alot of churches were more exclusive than they are now. If you are able to get past their exclusive claims then you might be able to relate to them better. I just know that alot of people get turned off by their exclusiveness.
(More about the Stone & Cambellite movement)
page 657-658 from "A History of the Christian Church" by Walker
"The Presbyterians were also torn by controversy. Those, often of Scotch Irish background, who held firmly to confessional standards and to traditions of an educated ministry were troubled by frontier revivalists whose doctrinal positions and ordination standards were more lax. Attempts to curb them, however, led only to schism. In 1803, Barton W. Stone (1772-1844) led a group of evangelistic Presbyterians out of the Synod of Kentucky. These "New Lights" soon dropped all "sectarian" names, seeking to be known simply as "Christians." Several years later, attempts to discipline Cumberland (Kentucky) Presbyterian revivalists led to an open break and the formation of what became the Cumberland Presbyterian Church. Some of the smaller Presbyterian bodies suffered schism, too. Thomas Cambell (1763-1854), a Seceder Presbyterian minister in the north of Ireland, came to America in 1807 and began work in western Pennsylvania. His freedom in welcoming Presbyterians of all parties to communion aroused criticism, and he was discipline by the Seceder Presbytery of Chartiers. Cambell felt it his duty to protest against such sectianism and to assert as the standard of all Christian discipleship the literal terms of the Bible alone, as he understood it. He broke with the Seceder Presbyterians but continued to labor in western Pennsylvania, announcing as his principle: "Where the Scriptures speak, we speak; and where the Scriptures are silent, we are silent." It was not a new denomination that he planned, but a union of all Christians on this biblical basis, without added tests of creed or ritual. In August 1809, Campbell organized the Christian Association of Washington-so called from the Pennsylvania county of its origin-and for it he prepared the "Declaration and Address" which has since been regarded as a fundamental document of what was to be known as the Disciples movement. The same year, Thomas Campbell's son, Alexander (1788-1866), emigrated to America, and he soon outstripped his father in fame as an advocate of Thomas's views.
In spite of their deprecation of sectarianism, the cambells organized a church in Brush Run, Pennsylvania, in May 1811. The Lord's Supper was observed each Sunday from the beginning. But doubts arose as to the scriptural waarent of infant baptism. In 1812, the Cambells and a number of their associates were immersed. A year later, the Brush Run Church became a member of the Redstone Association of Baptist Churches. Points of disagreement with the Baptists soon developed, however. The Campbells disliked the Baptists' strenous Calvinism. To the Campbells, the Old Testament was far less authoritative than the New. To the Baptists, baptism was a privilege of the already pardoned sinner; to the Campbells, it was a condition of forgiveness. Moreover, the Campbells, without being in any sense Uniterians, were influenced to some degree by the thought of the Enlightenment, and they refused to employ other than scriptural expressions regarding the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The result was a withdrawal from the Baptists, which may be said to have been completed by 1832, when the followers of Cambell merged with the bulk of the followers of Barton Stone to form the Disciples of Christ. Perhaps twenty-five thousand strong at that time, they passed the million mark before the turn of the century." 
 pages 103-105,  pages 111-113, from the book "Handbook of Denominations in the United States" 11nth edition by Frank S. Mead, Samuel S. Hill & 11nth edition edited by Craig D. Artwood; Nashville press
 pages 657-658 from "A History of the Christian Church" by Walker published by Scribner
According to the website:
"The founders of the Antiochian Orthodox Christian
Archdiocese of North America, Archdeacon Antony Bashir, Metropolitan Gerasimos
Messara, and Archimandrite Victor Abo-Assaley. This photo was taken in New York
in 1923. Gerasimos founded the archdiocese the next year on behalf of the
patriarchate, putting Victor in charge as its first metropolitan. Antony would
succeed him in 1936."
As seen from the website:
"This week, noted scholar Fr. John McGuckin discusses St.
Gregory the Theologian. St. Gregory was a great enemy of the Arian heresy. In
the beauty of his writings, he is considered to have surpassed the Greek writers
of antiquity, and because of his God-inspired theological thought, he received
the surname "Theologian.""
As seen from the website:
"This week on Theologically Thinking, Fr. Christopher Stamos
discusses the Wrath of God."
As seen from the website:
"This week on Theologically Thinking, popular author T.L.
Frazier. takes a second look at The Second Coming. Given the preoccupation of so
many Americans with the End Times, Orthodox Christians need to educate
themselves on the true teachings of the Church concerning the Second Coming of
As seen from the website:
"In this week's Theologically Thinking episode, Fr. Thomas
Hopko presents a message entitled "Why Does the Orthodox Church Have Bishops?" Listen Now (mp3)! or click below to
This is the journy of my friend Turbo. I met him for the first time some months ago at a conference in Missouri.
As seen from the website, this is the content of what the audio is about:
"On this week's Journey, Jacob Lee talks with a man with a
remarkable story of conversion. From dabbling in drugs, witchcraft and magic to
discovering Christianity, hear how one man's conversion to Christ and then to
the Orthodox Church changed his life. Listen Now (mp3)! or click below to
This is from the GOA website.
Part 1: The Glory Suffered: The Transfiguration of the Cross
Part 2: The Glory Revealed: Complete God and Complete Man
Part 3: The Glory Shared: The Transfiguration of the Cosmos
Part 4: The Glory Proclaimed: Liturgical Celebration of the Transfiguration
As seen from the website:
"If Prosperity Fails, Does The Gospel Also Fail?
and his guest, Orthodox journalist Glen Chancy, discuss the "Prosperity Gospel"
and the implications of a "Gospel message" tied to material prosperity,
especially in light of a failing economy."
As seen from Yahoo News
MOSCOW – In his nearly two decades at the head of the
world's largest Orthodox church, Patriarch Alexy II oversaw a religious revival
in Russia and healed a major church rift, but his death leaves a long-running
dispute with the Vatican unresolved.
Alexy's death Friday at age 79
deprives the Russian Orthodox Church of its dominant figure, whose stern,
bearded mien gave him an almost medieval aura of inflexible righteousness. He
often complained that Roman Catholics were poaching adherents among a people who
traditionally would have been Orthodox if atheistic Soviet rule had not impeded
Yet he and the church held many discussions with the Vatican,
aiming to reach an agreement that would allow the church to accept a papal visit
Without Alexy at the helm, the church's initiatives on that
question may go dormant for several months. The church's Holy Synod is to choose
a placeholder leader on Saturday, but election of a new patriarch is likely to
take six months. Metropolitan Kirill, the church's foreign relations chief who
has had extensive contact with the Vatican, appears to be one of the top
The Moscow Patriarchate said Alexy died at his residence
outside Moscow, but did not give a cause of death. Alexy had long suffered from
a heart ailment, although on Thursday he had appeared comparatively well while
His funeral was tentatively slated for Tuesday,
according to Russian news agency Interfax, which cited his spokesman Vladimir
Alexy became leader of the church in 1990, as the
officially atheist Soviet Union was loosening its restrictions on religion.
After the Soviet Union collapsed the following year, the church's popularity
surged. Church domes that had been stripped of their gold under the Soviets were
regilded, churches that had been converted into warehouses or left to rot in
neglect were painstakingly restored, and hours-long services on major religious
holidays were broadcast live on national television.
By the time of
Alexy's death, the church's flock was estimated to include about two-thirds of
Russia's 142 million people, making it the world's largest Orthodox
You can read the rest of the article at Yahoo News
The Ecumenical Councils - Part 1:
The Ecumenical Councils - Part 2:
The Council of Nicaea - 1:
The Council of Nicaea - 2:
He is using the book "The first seven Ecumenical Councils (325-787) Their History and Theology" by Leo Donald Davis.
I have this book too, and yes I do use it, however, it must be known that Leo Donald Davis is a Roman Catholic scholar so he is coming from that perspective. He constantly rejects the Eastern Christian Triniterian perspective, so this should be known before reading this book.
I don't advise this book for anyone who doesn't know the Eastern Christian perspective. One should first learn what the Eastern Orthodox view is before reading this work. I say this because it will be alot easier to discern what to accept and reject. Leo Donald Davis has a strong western Bias and I don't want to see an Orthodox Christian embracing a modalistic/sabellianistic Roman Catholic Triniterian view........where the Father is not the Source of the Godhead.
I do like the book, but I like it for other reasons. So eat the meat, and spit out the bones.
The Council of Nicaea - 3:
Constantinople - 1:
Constantinople - 2:
Constantinople - 3:
The Seventh Ecumenical Council:
Introduction to Genesis:
Genesis Verse by Verse - 1:
Genesis Verse by Verse - 2:
Genesis Verse by Verse - 3:
Genesis Verse By Verse - 4:
Genesis Verse by Verse - 5:
Genesis Verse by Verse - 6:
Genesis Verse by Verse - 7:
Genesis Verse By Verse - 8:
Genesis Verse By Verse - 9
Genesis Verse by Verse - 10
Genesis Verse By Verse - 11
Genesis Verse By Verse - 12
Genesis Verse By Verse - 13
Solar Powered By Brinson feat. D-M.A.U.B from Brinson on Vimeo.
One of my favorite hiphop videos