Blog Archive
-
▼
2010
(300)
-
▼
April
(23)
- Late Platonism, determinism and Saint Augustine
- The Patristic Eucharistic Doctrine
- Answering a question about prevenient grace(Armini...
- A reply to David N
- Kabane's presentation
- Song of Deborah
- Capernaum - House of Peter / Ancient Church in Cap...
- Christians at prayer 3rd century fresco
- The Pontius Pilate Inscription
- The Cyrus Cylinder
- The House of David Inscription
- Perry crushes Rhology!
- Why Perry is not an Episcopalian
- New History of Christianity Series!
- A Priestess Comes to Repentance
- Bishop Daniel of Erie (Memory Eternal!)
- Getting ready for the AncientChristian Conference
- Orthodox and Wesleyan Spirituality
- I wonder if this is where Rhology gets his suff fr...
- Second thoughts about a Monastery I use to advocate
- Reformed Christology & Nestorianism
- The Old Testament as Authoritative Scripture in th...
- Christ is Risen!
-
▼
April
(23)
Saint Moses the Black
Ecumenical Councils
Popular Posts
-
A former Calvinist becomes Eastern Orthodox. In the podcast " The Illumined Heart Podcast " Kevin interviews Robert Meyering. From...
-
"(6) He also wrote a dialogue against the Jews, which he held at Ephesus with Tryphon, the most distinguished among the Hebrews of his ...
-
It's in a few weeks, and I gotta make sure I know who is coming with me. So far, I have three people in Pittsburgh who are interested,...
-
This is a link of the Sermons of Fr. Athanasios Mitilinaios on the Apocalypse of St. John. Introduction of the Apocalypse part 1 part 2 Fo...
-
I recently took a leave of absence from the St. Stephen's Course in Orthodox Theology program. My finances were short for this semester...
-
Bishop Daniel was a bishop over the Russian Old believers in communion with Russia through ROCOR. Alot of people don't know about the Ol...
Labels
- about me (54)
- African American (33)
- Albert (5)
- ancestral sin (5)
- Ancient Christianity Conference (31)
- ancient heresies (23)
- ancientfaithradio (124)
- Archeology (11)
- Arminianism (32)
- Atheism (26)
- Atonement (18)
- Audio Sermons (10)
- Augustinianism (14)
- Baptism (11)
- Bible study (12)
- Book reviews (7)
- books (69)
- brotherhood of saint moses (25)
- calamity (2)
- Calvinism (69)
- charity (3)
- Christmass (10)
- Christology (1)
- Church Calendar (5)
- church fathers (60)
- church history (120)
- Confession (1)
- conspiracy theories (4)
- conversion stories (42)
- creationism (13)
- David (7)
- debates (14)
- determinism (1)
- Divine Energies/grace (15)
- Divine Energiesgrace (1)
- Divine Liturgy (5)
- Dr. Jeannie Constantinou (43)
- Eastern Orthodoxy (254)
- ecclesiology (3)
- Economics (2)
- Ecumenical councils (8)
- election (6)
- eschatology (22)
- Eucharist (7)
- Eugenics (7)
- Evangelism (1)
- fasting (8)
- free will (27)
- Ft. Thomas Hopko (43)
- fullpreterism (5)
- hiphop music (31)
- Icons (15)
- Incarnation (1)
- interest (3)
- Isa Almisry (1)
- Jesus (18)
- Kabane52 (1)
- Kallistos Ware (8)
- Learning Greek (5)
- Lectures (2)
- Lutheranism (1)
- Maximus Scott (2)
- Monasticism (15)
- Neopaganism (1)
- News (6)
- Oriental Orthodox (16)
- Orthodox Apologetics (22)
- Orthodox education (12)
- Orthodox Podcasts (30)
- Orthodox videos (67)
- Orthros/Matins (1)
- Panentheism (4)
- Parish life (34)
- pascha (9)
- Pascha/Easter (17)
- Patristics (7)
- perseverance (7)
- phatcatholic (6)
- politics (51)
- Prayer (32)
- prevenient grace (6)
- Protestantism (135)
- quotes (5)
- rapture (2)
- resources (8)
- resurrection of the dead (5)
- RocknRoll (4)
- Roman Catholicism (36)
- Romans 9 (10)
- sacramental theology (6)
- Sacred Music (10)
- scripture (71)
- scripture exposition/Interpretation (95)
- semi-pelagianism (9)
- Septuagint (12)
- Sola Scriptura (5)
- Theological vocabulary (6)
- Theotokos (4)
- thoughts (157)
- Tony Allen (9)
- tradition (35)
- Trinity (9)
- Western Rite (1)
Saint John the Theologian
Facebook Badge
Followers
Total Pageviews
Protestant & Catholic Rapsites I post on
About Me
Thursday, April 22, 2010
I wonder if this is where Rhology gets his suff from?
T4G 2010 -- Session 7 -- Ligon Duncan from Together for the Gospel (T4G) on Vimeo.
1.) He tries to read his theology into the fathers, he can do this with the first 4 points of Calvinism with Saint Augustine, but he can't do this with the 5th point. He ignores Augustine's views of Justification, and Regeneration in favor of Saint Hilary of Poitier's form of "faith alone". He doesn't make it known that the form of "faith alone" found before Martin Luther can by pass many of the anathema's of the Roman Catholic council of Trent. Shoot! Even the protestant Arminian form of "faith alone" can by pass some of the "faith alone" anathema's of the Roman Catholic council of Trent. The Reformed protestant interpretation of "faith alone" is static, while the protestant Arminian version is dynamic. The same is true for the half dozen to dozen "faith alone" statements you will find among some church fathers, heretics, schismatics, and witnesses/nonchurchfathers. This is something Dr. Ligon Duncan ignores or just doesn't let the people know......he is making it seem as if they believed or understood "faith alone" in the same way the Reformed do today. If they didn't believe in "imputation".......then it is an obvious difference.
2.) He poisons the well by exaggerating their differences. I saw this with Rhology as well. For those that don't read the fathers, it is easy to tell others that they were "all over the map", "contradicted each-other", "didn't agree".......etc. Yes, it is true that the fathers, nonfathers, schismatics, and heretics disagreed. But one needs to know the context of all of that. If the issue at hand is the doctrine of "free will", and if you include Augustine and his followers on the issue.........then yes, the fathers contradicted each-other! Then yes, they disagreed! But if you don't include Augustine and his followers......then no, the fathers mostly agreed on the issue of free will, no they were not all over the map on this issue! And so context matters! Also in the area of eschatology, their differences back then weren't as drastic chaotic, and all over the map like it is today in protestant circles. Back then you pretty much had 2 choices......chillism, and pessimistic amill.....well 3 if you want to include some statements by origin that would make it seem more optimistic......but it was pretty much 2 different views. 2 different issues is not being all over the map.......that difference is not as drastic and chaotic like it is today with different views of Reformed protestant partial preterism.....they alone are all over the map in regards to what was or wasn't fulfilled in 70 A.D., but then you have the full-preterist / Hyper-preterist. You have postmillers, pessimistic and optimistic amill, and in modern chillism you have historist, pre-trib, mid-trib, and post trib. You have classical dispensationalism, progressive dispensationalism......etc.
And so, the contradictions, disagreements ....etc. of the past is not to the same degree to the disagreements going on now within protestantism.
3.) He tries to make an excuse for the early church fathers stress on free will.....by saying it was an over-reaction to the fatalism and determinism of their day. He denies that their belief of free will was similar to that of both modern Arminians and middle age Roman Catholics.
He is trying to make it seem as if they were compatibilists. Now, one can make that case for Saint Augustine in his mid to later years, but you can't make that case for the early Augustine nor for the Eastern Fathers and pre-Augustine western Fathers.
He never makes it known that Saint Augustine was at odds with everyone else.
4.) Outside of Saint Jerome, and some Eastern Fathers, and heretics either looking at the Hebrew or referencing the Hebrew from time to time, the earlychurches' Bible was not the Hebrew Bible. It was the ancient Greek translation of the Hebrew Bible. Their Bible was the LXX/Septuagint
5.) He reads penal substitution into the Classical/Ransom/Christus Victor statements of the Fathers. Also the translator he was reading used the word "propitiation" instead of "expiation". The greek word "hilasteriaon" can be translated either way.
I'm tired, and so I might of missed some other things. I'll have to listen to it again to see what I missed. But uhm, if his gospel is different from theirs then they are the ones with a different gospel.
Christ is Risen!
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
About Me
Blogs: Eastern Orthodox
-
-
Why Not Use Ancient Rites?4 years ago
-
-
The Four Horsemen of Palamism2 years ago
-
-
-
It’s Time to Say Goodbye2 years ago
-
-
-
Orthodox Life13 years ago
-
-
-
-
-
-
The end of Pious Fabrications10 years ago
-
-
Bending Toward Bethlehem11 months ago
Blogs: Oriental Orthodox
-
Diagnosis and Prescription8 years ago
-
Restoration of The Son8 years ago
Blogs: Roman Catholic
-
-
-
-
-
-
A Brief Update11 years ago
-
-
-
My Sister's New Blog13 years ago
-
Blogs: Anglo-Catholic/ACNA
-
A CORRUPTING INFLUENCE2 days ago
-
Hello world!11 months ago
-
-
-
Blogs: Lutheran Protestant
Blogs: Mostly Arminian Protestant
-
Book Review: Grace for All9 years ago
-
-
Denah Rumah Type 36 Luas Tanah 726 years ago
-
Christian Rappers and Collaborations13 years ago
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
NOT Independence Sunday15 years ago
-
Blogs: Reformed Protestant
-
-
Do Not Disavow7 months ago
-
-
This Blog Has Moved!!!10 years ago
-
-
Is Peter the Rock of the Church?14 years ago
-
-
3 comments:
I'm pretty sure Rhology is a Baptist, not a Presbyterian.
True!
Christ is Risen!
I love Duncan, and I'll try to give that a listen.
But this is where I get it - http://rhoblogy.blogspot.com/2010/01/monolithic-early-church.html