Ancient Christian Witness

I view cessationism as a form of semi-atheism.

Cessationism is only one of the factors I saw which led to my speculation of modern Atheism coming from particular former christian circles. When you add Cessationism with alot of other things, then you can see how Atheism and Secularism in general eventually took over the western World.

There were alot of events one can look at in time that helped secularism become what it is now. Charlse Darwin's book.......the origin of species.....being one of them, for most christians around that time were Old Earth Creationists......including a number of Darwin's college professors. After he wrote that book however, you start to see a number of Old Earthers switch to Theistic Evolution, while a number of others lost faith and became either Agnostic or Atheistic evolutionists. YEC (Young Earth Creationism) came back in style around the 1960's, but that book(the origin of species) single handedly took science out of the hands of christianity, and completely into the hands of secularism. And so that played a role as well. And so you gotta add alot of things together in order to see a fuller picture.


http://ancientchristiandefender.blog...m-atheism.html/

Quote:

Quote:
"It is my view that Calvinism is semi-Atheistic. Especially those Calvinists that are "cessationists" I point the finger at the Zwingli/Calvin Compromise. This compromise was one of the reasons why the Reformed churches couldn't unite with the Lutherian churches.

But I would like to quote a few things by Alister Mcgrath to show that I wasn't wrong for speculating this.

He says on page 146 of his book "Christianity's Dangerous idea: The protestant revolution-a history from the sixteenth century to the twenty-first":



"The appeal of the Enlightenment proved greatest within Reformed circles. For
reasons that remain unclear, rationalism gained acceptance in many former
Calvinist strongholds. Geneva and Edinburgh, both international centers of
Calvinism in the late sixteenth century, were noted as epicenters of European
rationalism in the late eighteenth century. John Calvin and John Knox gave way
to the very different worldviews of Jean-Jacques Rousseau and David Hume. In
marked contrast, the Enlightenment had relatively little impact on Catholicism
during the eighteenth century-unless, of course, the French Revolution (1789) is
seen as a political extension of the ideas of the Enlightenment."[1]


He mentions this again in passing on page 264 while talking about the stripping away of the "sacred/supernatural" and the rise of the Atheistic worldview.


"While most Elizabethan Protestants were happy to follow continental ideas,
especially those of Calvin, their Jacobean and Stuart successors were
increasingly aware of the need to symbolize the interaction and interpenetration
of the sacred and secular. The poetry of George Herbert can be seen as an
attempt to retain an essentially Calvinist theology of the Sacraments, while
developing its capacity to promote the Church's social and confessional
cohesion.
This decoupling of the sacred from the quotidian, characteristic
of certain types of Protestantism, accelerated the rise of a functionally
atheist worldview in which God was not regarded as an active participant in the
worldview. It is no accident that two sixteenth-century European centers of
Calvinism-Geneva and Edinburgh-had became centers of rationalism two centuries
later.
We shall have more to say about this development later. Yet it is
important to appreciate here that one of the most fundamental characteristics of
Pentecostalism is its insistence that the divine may be encountered in the
secular realm. Its astonishing success points to the reversal of this trend and
the emergence of a new form of Protestantism characterized by its expectation of
the direct experience of the spiritual within the mundane."[2]



I am not the onlyone who sees a connection between Calvinistic theology with the rise of Atheism. I'm not gonna say all, but alot of Calvinists tend to disregard any idea of "mystery" for the sake of "rationalism"/logic.


Also, if you watch the 3rd video in the BBC documentary of how modern Secularism owes alot to the Reformed sector of the
Protestant Reformation, then you will see what I mean by "semi-Atheism"


A Reformation of the Mind

The eventual slide into Atheism / modern secularism is also seen by this book, which charts some of the changes of ideas and methods which also caused a change of worldviews.







The Bible, Protestantism, and the Rise of Natural Science
Quote:

Quote:
"Product Description
Peter Harrison examines the role played by the Bible in the emergence of natural science. He shows how both the contents of the Bible, and more particularly the way it was interpreted, had a profound influence on conceptions of nature from the third century to the seventeenth. The rise of modern science is linked to the Protestant approach to texts, an approach that spelled an end to the symbolic world of the Middle Ages, and established the conditions for the scientific investigation and technological exploitation of nature.


Also, when you look at the early apologetical wars about Scripture, error, ......etc. between Protestants....mainly puritans, and Roman Catholics, then you will also see that a century or so later, Liberal Protestants started to use those very same tools, and methods more consistantly in attacking the very scriptures that Protestants believe in.


Quote:

Quote:
"quote:
"Appeals to supposed errors in the Deuterocanon have long peppered
Protestant/Catholic debates and rendered it far uglier than it needed to be.
Because Catholicism was its target, few had the forethought that this method
could be used against the rest of the Bible. As the Reformed scholar Edward
Ruess noted, "The scoffs thrown at the little fish of Tobit will sooner or later
destroy Jonah's wale." Ruess prophetic words have been fulfilled by the
extravagances of higher criticism.

After the Apocrypha controversy had subsided,
critics turned the same weapons against, not only the Prophet Jonah, but also
the rest of the books of scripture. So-called errors and absurdities were
quickly expunged from the Protocanon of the Old and New Testaments. Whole books
were labeled (or libeled) as myths and fables. The end result is a bible where
only a few passages are worthy of belief. Anti-Catholic polemicists have
unwittingly opened a Pandora's box.

They assumed no one would ever dare charge
the rest of scripture with errors and absurdities, yet the advent of liberal
Protestantism brought with it individuals who did not fear to apply these
arguments consistently throughout the entire Bible. The problem at the heart of
this line of argumentation is one of pride. It places the intellect in the role
of judge, allowing it to sit in judgement upon the word of God. [3]"

In the Roman Catholic world, we can see Atheism forming in France from Jansenism. Jansenism is very similar to Calvinism in many ways, and I find it interesting that some would link French Atheism with the Jansenism, as seen here:

Quote:
"Since Jansenism had originated in Holland, the Dutch bishops were suspect; and in 1670 the Archbishop of Utrecht was summoned to Rome to answer a charge of heresy. He returned uncondemned, but in 1710 the Archbishop-elect, selected by the chapter, was excommunicated for protesting against a summons to appear before a papal nuncio at Colegne, After thirteen years' limbo, however, on 15 October 1724, Cornelius Steenoven was consecrated Archbishop, in due line of Apostolic succession, by Bishop of Babylon, whereupon the Old Catholic Church of Holland began a separate existence, one which still continues. Jansenism also survived in France but almost entirely politically and without its original idealism. The conflict it caused has, in fact, led to the accusation that it formented the spirit of atheism and the anti-religion which helped to bring about the French Revolution.. [4]"

Both Calvinism and Jansenism are hardcore forms or mutations of ruff deterministic Augustinianism, and so Augustinianism can be seen as playing a role in all this.





A good movie to watch for Atheists, as well as for semi-Atheists would be the The Exorcism Of Emily Rose
This movie was based on a true story, and it shows the conflict between modern secularism/Atheism/Naturalism and the spiritual world.












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[1], and [2] by Dr. Alister Mcgrath, from the book Christianity's Dangerous idea: The Protestant Revolution-A history from the sixteenth Century to the twenty-First. Published by HarperOne. Copyright 2007


[3] pages 322 & 323 from the book "Why Catholic Bibles are Bigger: The
untold story of the lost books of the Protestant Bible" by Gary G. Michuta
(copyright) 2007

[4] pages 171-174 from the book "A history of Heresy" by David Christie-Murray

This is from the podcast The Illumined Heart by Kevin Allen.

As seen by the website:
"Fr. Alexander Rentel, Orthodox canonist and Assistant Professor of Canon Law and Byzantine Studies at St Vladamir's Orthodox Theological seminary, speaks with Illumined Heart host Kevin Allen about scandals in church history, the role the canons play, and what laity can do about their resolution."



Play Audio







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How should we study Theology? by Kallistos Ware at SPU from J norm on Vimeo.

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This is from the Anglican and Orthodox dialog that happened some days ago at Nashotah House.(A highchurch and Anglo-Catholic Episcopal/Anglican seminary). From the looks of it, the conservative Anglicans of the ACNA just want to be friends, whereas the OCA Orthodox want a marriage, but in order to do that the Anglicans must reject/renounce Calvinism, and that is something (as a whole) they will probably not do.

The ACNA seems to have embraced all 7 councils whereas before the Episcopal/Anglicans only embraced the first 4, so they made a huge improvement, but you can tell that they don't want full communion.......they just want to be friends. But for the OCA Orthodox being friends isn't good enough.

The audio is from AncientFaith Radio.

The Future of Anglican and Orthodox Relations (audio)

The History of Anglican/Orthodox Relations (audio)

Anglican/Orthodox Relations In Practice (audio)


As seen from Nashotah's website:
http://www.nashotah.edu/news.htm#item1



QUOTE:

Quote:
"Nashotah, WI, September 1, 2009 – An ecumenical conference between scholars of the Anglican and Eastern Orthodox traditions will be held at Nashotah House Theological Seminary on October 8-10, 2009. Entitled “In the Footsteps of Tikhon and Grafton - Anglican and Orthodox Identity, Ministry and Mission in the 21th Century,” the Anglican-Orthodox Conference will feature discussions and addresses by representatives of Nashotah House and St. Vladimir’s Orthodox Theological Seminary in Yonkers, NY, together with several worship services representing the spiritual riches of both traditions. The conference will conclude with the signing of a “Covenant Partnership,” pledging continued prayer, fellowship and ecumenical cooperation between the two schools.

Speakers will include the His Beatitude, Metropolitan Jonah, Orthodox Metropolitan of All America and Canada, who is President of the St. Vladimir’s Board of Trustees, and the Very Rev. Chad Hatfield, an alumnus of Nashotah House who is now Chancellor of St. Vladimir’s Orthodox Theological Seminary. The Conference is free and open to the public but advance registration is required. For more information, telephone Fr. Steve Schlossberg, Director of Communications, at (262) 646-6506.

“St. Vladimir's Seminary is committed to working out a new relationship with Nashotah House that honors our common legacy and heritage,” says Fr. Hatfield. “Together we can take the work and witness or our forefathers and reclaim the voice of Christian orthodoxy that this world is starving to hear once again. Not to do so would be to fail to build upon the foundations of both seminaries and the two traditions that they represent. Now is the time to act boldly, and together we will in common witness to the truth of the Gospel of our Lord, God and Savior Jesus Christ. May it be blessed.”

The Very Rev. Dr. Robert S. Munday, Dean and President of Nashotah House expressed his conviction that this new relationship between the two seminaries “is an important step in furthering a renewal of Anglican—Orthodox ecumenical dialogue, which is the oldest ecumenical dialogue between Christian traditions." Dean Munday added, "It is particularly appropriate that Nashotah House should resume the ecumenical efforts begun over 100 years ago by Bishop Charles Grafton (2nd Bishop of Fond du Lac and Chairman of the Nashotah House Board of Trustees) and Saint Tikhon of Moscow (who was archbishop of the Orthodox Church in America, and who was made an honorary Doctor of Divinity by Nashotah House in 1905, later becoming Patriarch of Moscow and head of the Russian Orthodox Church)."

Founded in 1842 as a mission to the American frontier, and chartered by the state of Wisconsin in 1847 as a “college of learning and piety,” Nashotah House is Wisconsin’s oldest institution of higher learning. “The Mission,” as the seminary is locally known, provides degree programs for men and women called to pastoral and leadership ministries throughout the worldwide Anglican Communion of Churches."

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I could be wrong about this, but I think this was done by a "Trad" for SPX was shown in the credits. But anyway, I thought debunking Jack Chick in a class room format was a good idea. The Orthodox should do the same when it comes to Jack Chick and Robert Morey.


Part 1 of 17:




Part 2 of 17:




Part 3 of 17




Part 4 of 17




Part 5 of 17




Part 6 of 17











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The link:
http://orthodoxresource.com/












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I can't read Arabic, and so I have to depend on those that are able to translate it into English.

The link:
http://araborthodoxy.blogspot.com/2009/10/antiochian-ecclesiology.html










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For those that don't know the ACNA is a newly formed Anglican/Episcopal church that was formed some months ago due to the liberalism of the TEC(ECUSA). It is made up of mostly a coalition of both Anglo-Catholic and Reformed Episcopalians. They have about 700 parishes and about 100,000 people. Their new Archbishop is the former ECUSA Bishop of Pittsburgh Robert Duncan.













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This is a new podcast on AncientFath Radio by Fr. Andrew.
last week, he gave me the heads up that it was going to air on AncientFaith on October 4th.

He did a series similer to this at his old parish back in January. This updated one is for his new Parish. I enjoyed the old ones and I can't wait to hear this one as well.

The first topic in this series is "Understanding the Terms":
As seen from the website:
"In this premier episode, Fr. Andrew provides helpful definitions of such terms as “orthodoxy,” “heterodoxy,” “heresy,” “heretic,” “schismatic,” and—most importantly—”truth.”"

Play Audio




Related Links:
Orthodoxy & Heterodoxy: What are the differences between Orthodox Christianity and other religious traditions?

and

Orthodoxy & Heterodoxy







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This is a roundtable discussion with Piper, Hamilton, Wilson, and Storms, where they talk about their views of Premill/Chillism, Postmill, and Amill.











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Eventhough I'm no longer a protestant, nor am I a Roman Catholic, so this doesn't really have much to do with me, but I enjoyed the debate anyway(it's about 8 mp3's and each are close to an hour long....give or take some minutes). I mostly saw the second debate over the issue of Sola Fide/Justification as a fight/debate between two Augustinian groups. The first debate was over the issue of Sola Scriptura.





Michael Horton, W. Robert Godfrey & Rod Rosenbladt (Protestant)
vs.
Patrick Madrid, Robert Sungenis & William Marshner (Roman Catholic)


The Roman Catholic Link:
http://www.surprisedbytruth.com/shop/shopexd.asp?id=120

The Reformed Protestant Link:
http://www.whitehorseinn.org/specialoffers/welcome.htm

An article by an Orthodox Christian who witnessed the debate:
http://www.touchstonemag.com/archive...id=08-04-044-r













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This is from the podcast American Orthodox History
by Matthew Namee.

As seen from the website:
"Matthew discusses the careers of Nicholas Bjerring (1870) and James Chrystal (1868), the first two convert priests in American Orthodox history. Learn more HERE."


Play Audio


I personally like this one for he shows both the good, the bad, and the ugly. For everything isn't always all good, and perseverence in suffering both externally and internally is something that must be done if one wants to stay Orthodox. He showed two examples where converts were rushed to the clerical priesthood, and how they eventually fell away. I take this to heart for I am also a convert, and this is something I need to be aware of.........for some of the things I saw in them, I see in myself.









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