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Monday, November 29, 2010

Jehovah Witnesses & Protestant Restorationism

This is from the HCR forums.

The video in question: (part 1)

Originally Posted by djnoyze View Post
I'm not a Church History buff, but some of this stuff is absolutely wrong.

There's 7 parts I think... They even make it seem like they're carrying on the work started by reformers...

I'll check it out for you.
Synergy My Blog The Brotherhood

The others can comment about the work of the Reformers. But some Restorationists in general try to piggy back off the protestant Reformation. What they would say is that they restored some truth but they didn't go far enough.

To them, the Reformers were nothing more than Reformed Catholics. Meaning, they never wanted to really leave the Roman Catholic church, they just wanted to Reform it to an earlier Roman Catholic era.

The protestant Restorationist would say that what is needed is not a Reform but a Restoration. They would see Roman Catholicism as not sick but dead.

And so a Protestant Restorationist would teach that total apostasy happened right away shortly after the death of the last Apostle. And only restored when their restorationist leader/founder brought it back.

A Protestant Reformationist would say that either total or partial Apostasy happened slowly and later in time. And only Reformed when their leader/founder straightened it all out.

And so it's a difference in degree. Also, what is seen as being apostasy to one protestant group may not be seen as being one by another. It's pretty subjective.
Synergy My Blog The Brotherhood

Last edited by jnorman888; 11-29-2010 at 10:43 PM..

I watched all 7 videos.

In regards to the first video:

Read chapters 20 to 42. Tertullian answered this back in 197A.D. about 101 years after the death of the Apostle John or about 130 something years after the deaths of the Apostles Peter and Paul.

Later in the video(part 1) they talk specifically about Roman Catholicism.....they probably don't even know that the Orthodox exist. And so I will give a Roman Catholic link that adresses the issue from their perspective.

Episode 6 – Ecclesial Deism

or simply Download the mp3

The article from which the podcast was made.

In regards to the other 6 videos, I will say that every group on the planet has a history. A beginning in how they were formed. The JW's come from the millerite movement, those in the millerite movement were also called Second Adventists because their focus was on the second advent of Christ.

Those from the millerite movement are:

1.) Seventh Day Adventist (they formed their group after the Adventist Christian Church formed theirs)

2.) Advent Christian Church (1st day Adventist)

3.) The World Wide Church of God (they split from the SDA's)

There are about a few dozen more millerite break off groups I didn't name, but the ones up above are the big 3 or main 3.

The JW's stem from group # 2

What most millerites have in common are their doctrines about:

1.) Soul sleep
2.) The rejection of the immortal soul doctrine
3.) Jesus being the Archangel Micheal
4.) Date setting.....jesus coming but when the date passed they either changed their mind, set up a new date, or spiritualized the error. Like Jesus coming back spiritually in 1844 or in 1917.....etc.

Early on the Seventh Day Adventists had a hard time embracing the doctrine of the Trinity. Some of them embraced it while others didn't. Eventually they came around to officially embrace the doctrine. Some of the more radical SDA off shoots still reject it.

The World Wide Church of God taught Biniterianism. Meaning, they only believed the Father and Son to be God. They didn't believe the Holy Spirit to be God. They taught the idea of Him being a force. In the 1990's, the main body officially embraced the doctrine of the Trinity. However, it caused a split within the group and so the more radical break off groups still teach Biniterianism.

The JW's (Jehovah Witnesses) are Unitarians. They only see the Father as God, the son a creature and the Holy Spirit a force.

In the 19th century of New England you had the rise of liberalism and Unitarianism in general, and so I wouldn't be surprised to see that the JW's borrowed alot from other people and groups. And so they are a mixture of their own unique ideas as well as the ideas of others. A denominational mutt or tossed salad.

From watching all 7 videos I couldn't help but compare it to the yoga copyright lawsuit of some years ago. This Indian guy started a franchise of certain yoga positions from his homeland, and he sued others who used his method and style of patterns.

In a similar way, it seems as if the JW's are nothing more than a franchise of how one man understood Scripture. The video made it seem as if they are a franchise of how one man did Bible Study. It's his methods of Scriptural interpretation and his methods of what pattern to take in understanding Scripture. He borrowed alot of patterns, methods and ideas from other people and mixed it with his own original ideas.

The end result was the JW's organization.

As far as their truth claims go......I would say that they are not the only Restorationists in town. The Mormons are restorationists, the same with the Churches of Christ, Seventh Day Adventists, Amish, some World Wide Churches of god break off groups, as well as some Pentecostal groups.

And so what makes them so special from the truth claims of all these other groups? The JW's teach that a total apostasy happened as soon as the last Apostle died.

So how can they be so sure that god chose their group to bring thee true faith back over against another group that claims the same thing? Why should anyone listen to them and not the Mormons, Amish, SDA's, Churches of Christ, some World Wide Church of god groups, and some Pentecostal groups? Shoot! You might even have some Baptist groups like that, and so why should anyone trust their claims over and against their competitors?

What makes them so special?

Also, if they are wrong about total apostasy when the last Apostle died, then what right do they have to even exist? They should disband and join what Jesus and the Apostles really started.
Synergy My Blog The Brotherhood


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